I have a rules question

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slobber Knocker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL! Glory days at UVA-WISE! Now thats funny!</div></div>

That's what I'm screaming...it's pretty sad to witness someone in their 30's trying to relive it as well. SK--you don't know the half of it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WiseRecGuy91</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am sorry that the guys in Kappa Sigma never let you in that was their choice, not mine, so please don't take out your frustrations of not being able to join that organization on me!</div></div>

Not the case my friend--my freshman year, they offered me a spot, I went to the first pledge meeting, and decided that your particular fraternity was not for me--so I said thanks but no thanks. No regrets--no frustration.

It was me who turned them down, not the other way around.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WiseRecGuy91</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I truly don't remember me ever doing what you said and at that why don't we ask some of these other so called people on the forum that say the same about me as you do to speak up. This is truly sad on your part.</div></div>

Some of these people are closer to you than you think...that's all I'll say. I'll leave it up to them if they want to say anything about it--but I'm not the only one who witnessed most of the stuff that went on under your watch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WiseRecGuy91</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have really never posted on hear, but have enjoyed ready the "Good" discussions and not the personal attacks. </div></div>

Then leave me the hell alone and feel free to discuss. I won't mess with you if you want to do that and stop coming after me for no reason after you had made all of 2 posts before that.

[sup-rbeast]

WiseRecGuy puts me in mind of out long lost friend pachokiebirdweedeaterman....lol...and BTW, frats are for pu$$ies...

[WiseRecGuy91]

I brought up the past, right!!! I for some reason remember your first post on this thread raising "cane" about how Zebra "back in high school did this" to a certain player and that's why he let a kid get hurt. All I ever was trying to say was that if you were going to use his past why not use yours on you.

You can get on here and tell all these people about me and my past, but is any of it truth, NO! Just like you said I could change the records, so can you make crap up, and pretty good crap at that. The people on this forum that know me; they know who I really am, what I satnd for, and what I have done in the past. Your lies really don't mean a whole lot.

All I wanted to do from the start was defend my friend on here. Yeah, I don't post a lot, I do read the forum a lot, never seen a whole lot to discuss.

Most of the time its just complaints about how bad the officiating is and its not really that bad. Have you watched any of our college games in recent years, its not that good.

Let's let bigones be bigones, admit that both you and I have storied pasts (IYO) and discuss what really matters, questions for officials.

[imported_Counts]

WiseRec and Cane please take the rest of you guys disagreement to PM

[sup-rbeast]

C'mon Counts...it was just gettin juicy !!!

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Counts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WiseRec and Cane please take the rest of you guys disagreement to PM

</div></div>

I've been done w/it bro...he just had to reply one more time I guess.

He can PM me if he wants but I'm done.

[OAR]

Just an FYI, but if we have someone associated with the fraternity in anyway who is a supervisor or official from class, then we try to not let them officiate the games. From time to time it is impossible because of the fact we do not have enough people in class who want to sign up their lazy butts for hours. I do think it is funny that people always say that someone got jobbed because WiseRecGuy91 wants the fraternity to win. Dude, we got screwed sometimes, because he didn't want to show everyone it "could be favoritsm." That is one of the worst things students do on campus. They may lose by six goals, 15 points, or whatever the case. But that is the easiest excuse when they weren't good enough.

Now, out of the 14 major intramural sports we have, Kappa Sigma may win 3-4 each year. Kappa Sig guys won flag football (beating the staff team, which should have won), kickball, and volleyball (if they even use it as an all campus team). That is all. They participate enough to win the all campus championship, not because Davis wants them too, just because they compete and show up enough to win. And btw, this post is coming from a guy who now plays with staff when they have a team. This post may sound biased, but I am just stating the facts.

[R0cketer]

Now back to the original question

How are the written on intentional and flagrant fouls? I just want clarify, its not going to unbreak a leg or anything but it always seems like when you ask about calls like this, you get into a lot of semantics about it, and don't get a straight answer.

I like to be able to argue or disagree with a basis for my disagreement. As I stated, I thought a flagrant foul was something called when it was an obvious attempt to injure, be that by a punch, bodyslam or kick to the back of the leg (if someone wants to pull out a steel chair and go 4 horseman on them, that would count too but I don't think that it would be explicitly listed in the rule). Zebra mentioned his view of it, but trying to say that it has to be a punch or a bodyslam doesn't mean that a kick, an elbow to the groin, or trapping the knee wouldn't be either, to me I guess that means it is a judgment call on the basis of an attempted injury. My biggest issues were that it was called at first, and then once the coach started in on it, the call was reversed. I appreciate the fact that maybe nobody saw the flagrant part, although I wonder why it was called initially if that was the case, but even if you don't want to call the flagrant, the protest with the action was worthy of a "T" (which is a nice way of removing the player, not making them sit out 2 games), and you also reduce the chance of things getting ugly. Simple question would be, what if we would have had a good redneck player, who seen his buddy get taken out (and we all know that players think that even if there is nothing), and decided to take the kid out who did it, when he got put back in the game 1 minute and 30 seconds later? Then who was the idiot, the kid who reacts or the coach who propagates it? I have heard that officials aren't supposed to recommend a coach remove a player, but lets be honest, almost every official has told a coach that their player is getting a bit to 'aggressive' or 'running their mouth too much' and about to get tossed. If we want to go strictly by the rules, and not use some logic, I'm waiting to see, say TJ from Wise tossed 30 seconds into a game for being out of his box, or players called for technicals 10 times a game for flopping [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

I don't necessarily agree with how Cane went about it with Zebra, but I do think its a valid insight. I know if Counts was to be an official, he would allow more holding and such on the lines, because he knows that it happens every play, and unless it influences a play, its stupid to call it every time. It is logical that if a player was more physical, they probably allow more physicality.

I'm not trying to down Zebra or anybody else, lord knows that we have enough of that and probably always have and always will. Just when there is a question, or even dare a mistake, I hate to see it turn into the age old story of 'you do it', 'you don't know the rules', 'blame the association' or whatever. Guess what, officials are human, they make mistakes. I've even heard a few own up to mistakes over the years. I've also heard the ones that swear that the sun is green because they screwed up and don't have testicles to admit that they aren't perfect. Are there idiot fans who yell at every call, thinking every single time someone touches one of their kids its a foul, but every time their kid touches someone it's just hustle? Absolutely! Are there likewise officials who think 'Team A' is really good and 'Team B' is really bad, so that 'Team B' shouldn't be in the game with them, and if they are, it must be something illegal? Unfortunately that is also an absolutely statement. Not all, of course, just like not all fans.

You want people to have more insight about the rules, answer questions. That is really what this forum was for, not to crucify refs (although I know that happens), but a venue for refs to explain calls, list rules that explain why a call was made. I asked for the rule, and I don't think anybody really put what it was, there was an 'interpretation' but that little 'etc' is the danger zone.

We have some issues now and then, rules change, differences in high school, college, pro and sometimes people don't know the difference. Shoot one of the better officials I know told me one thing and 2 hours later told me something else, because they got levels of competition mixed up. It happens and if happens to officials, it happens to fans, coaches and players. Instead of the 'I know I'm right attitude', a bit of attempted explanation goes a long way.

[USA Ranger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's an opinion on his officiating, and I'm telling the truth about everything in the post I made above.

I didn't say word one about him as a person, I recalled a true happening that possibly correlated back to how he officiates an overly physical style of bball that ended up getting a kid's leg broke. That's all.

I didn't personally attack--I criticized the way he officiates--he gets paid for it, and in my mind, it's fair game. It's the same as if the Coalfield had a writer who wrote an editorial on the bad quality of basketball officiating in this area--it's nothing personal--it's a critique to hopefully light a fire under somebody and get them to change for the better.

If you don't agree--let's discuss. </div></div>

Well, my concern is this: YOu are a mod, and you are not suppose to discuss it in the way that you did. Would it not have been better to just pm them? Not good leadership in my opinion.

[USA Ranger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This really has nothing to do with that call but I'm slowly learning that when you step out onto the floor in the LPD you better be ready. The officiating in the LPD is very political and if you want to win that night you better plan on beating 8, because lord knows what your going to see. I have discussed this with several people including officials away from the forum and it's just a nature of the beast but really is there any official who officiates in the LPD who doesn't have a tie into the game somehow? I'd like to think most of those on here know my feelings, very school spirited, etc. Why would I officiate? There is no way that you could send me to officiate the Appy/JJK game this week and expect me to do a fair job, I know that if Appy wins PV is in first place. The officials around here are all in that position, and if they can ignore that then they are better than I am, especially when they have family members, kids they have coached, neighbors kids, etc being directly affected by the outcome of a game they officiate. It's not going to get any better because it can't get any better, put Cane in the stripes and tell him to go ref TW/Castlewood with Coeburn needing a TW loss to pass them in the standings and see if he refs fair. I'm not saying that he wouldn't but wouldn't it be damn hard not to? </div></div>

I understand that may be your opinion of the matter, but at the same time you are labeling "every" offical to be that way. For you to make such a statement is out of order. Officiating a game is hard enough without fans throwing their two cents in.